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| Opinions on bracing http://www-.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=23117 |
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| Author: | liquidsuspension [ Fri Jul 17, 2009 5:18 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Opinions on bracing |
Although its too late, the guitar is finished, I wanted to get some opinions on my bracing to improve for my next one. I have the feeling it may be too bulky, but I'm poor at judging. I was trying to stay on the safe side. Also, I tried to get close to a Martin OM, as far as layout goes. |
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| Author: | Steve Saville [ Fri Jul 17, 2009 5:59 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Opinions on bracing |
Was that a dread? How tall was it t the X brace? Tone bars and X braces look too tall to me. |
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| Author: | liquidsuspension [ Fri Jul 17, 2009 6:08 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Opinions on bracing |
No its an OM. X brace is 3/4" tall. Tone bars were 1/2" before shaping, so they may be just a little shorter than that at the peaks. |
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| Author: | Tom West [ Fri Jul 17, 2009 6:37 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Opinions on bracing |
Think your "X" brace at 3/4" is at least .125" too tall.Think if you go with these as they are that you will not be happy with the result. Also you should consider a cap at the cross over of the"X" brace.I know one of the better known books says to use 3/4" but I think its too heavy.Others will wade in on this no doubt with more advice. Good luck. |
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| Author: | mhammond [ Fri Jul 17, 2009 7:23 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Opinions on bracing |
Ryan: The top bracing is part of a complete system, your braces might be perfect with a thin wimpy top. With a stiff top they might be too massive. You say that the box is together, at this juncture its hard to thin them any more. If the box sounds "tight" you can thin the edges of the top on the exterior, that will loosen things up a bit. Some people (myself included) don't inlet the bottom of the x-braces if they have a nice stiff top assembly. The other post about capping the lap joint is very good advice, its not too late for that. Most of the more experienced guys will make their braces more slender and triangulate them in cross section. All in all, I guarantee you that your guitar will sound just like a guitar if you finish it as it is. Good Luck and happy building........ Mikey |
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| Author: | liquidsuspension [ Fri Jul 17, 2009 8:39 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Opinions on bracing |
The top is already rather thin (.090"), and the guitar is completed finish and all. So thinning the edges of the soundboard isn't an option. I don't know if its sufficient, and its probably hard to see in the pictures, but I do have a thin piece of spruce over the lap joint. Wow 1/4" too tall. That would be a long time sanding through the soundhole. ![[headinwall]](./images/smilies/headbangwalluf8.gif "Mad") The next one will be braced a bit lighter. This one sounds decent, but you can definitely tell there's potential in there not getting tapped into.
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| Author: | Tom West [ Fri Jul 17, 2009 8:46 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Opinions on bracing |
Not 1/4 (.250),but 1/8 (.125). |
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| Author: | Burton LeGeyt [ Fri Jul 17, 2009 8:54 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Opinions on bracing |
Hey Ryan, Without any other info about the wood, etc... it is impossible to make accurate guesses about the bracing. Since you have it strung up I would play it for a few months and pay attention each time to the tone and any perceived changes. If it still sounds like the potential isn't coming around I would take some 80 grit in by hand and work on the lower tone bar, especially the peak, but really the whole thing and the lower legs of the x brace, especially where they meet the linings. In my experience (of doing that very thing!) those are the areas that will make the most difference. You could also work on the back braces but I think you will notice the most immediate results from the top braces below the bridge. If you do try this, please report back on how it went. |
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| Author: | liquidsuspension [ Fri Jul 17, 2009 9:56 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Opinions on bracing |
Oh sorry Tom, my mistake. 1/8" isn't as bad. Thanks for the suggestions Burton. I think I might give that a try. |
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| Author: | Joe Beaver [ Fri Jul 17, 2009 10:16 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Opinions on bracing |
Actually your bracing looks pretty darn good. Yes, you could cut them down to 5/8 tall instead of 3/4 if they are 5/16 thick. If they are 1/4 thick then I would leave them. |
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| Author: | liquidsuspension [ Sat Jul 18, 2009 10:07 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Opinions on bracing |
Thanks Joe. Yes the X braces are 5/16", others are 1/4". |
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| Author: | Frei [ Tue Jul 21, 2009 6:24 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Opinions on bracing |
How does it sound? 
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| Author: | gozierdt [ Tue Jul 21, 2009 8:32 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Opinions on bracing |
On my first OM, I made the braces about the same as yours look in the pictures. I thought the guitar sounded OK, but not as good as I wanted. I took one of the small Ibex planes, and triangulated and cut down the braces quite a bit- probably 20% in height in the tallest areas, plus what I removed by creating more of a triangular profile. I strummed and tapped as I did this. I believe I improved the sound quite a lot. I wouldn't worry about the very center of the x-brace being too tall at this point. It's the stiffest part of the bracing in any event, and the bridge plate stiffens that center area even more. I'd work on the braces from an inch or so from the X out almost to the linings. Remember, the stiffness is proportional to the cube of the height, and proportional directly to the width. So I triangulated first (lessened the mass of the braces without changing the stiffness very much), then planed at a sharper angle to cut the height down slowly, since a small change in height makes a very big change in stiffness. |
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| Author: | liquidsuspension [ Thu Jul 23, 2009 12:39 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Opinions on bracing |
I worked on the braces as mentioned by Burton. I did it two sessions. Each time it sounded a little less tight = better tone. Its sounding pretty nice now, although more sanding may be in order later. I'm going to let it play in for awhile to see if I think it needs more work. Thanks for the info Gene. I wish I had one of those finger planes. If I decide it needs more work, it may give me an excuse to get one. |
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| Author: | Corky Long [ Thu Jul 23, 2009 12:58 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Opinions on bracing |
I agree with Burton - lots of variables..... After you've played it for awhile and it's opened up a bit, you could try medium strings if you have light strings on it now. I've been very surprised by the sound that's coming out of my 000 cedar/walnut combo with medium strings. Almost a different guitar. |
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| Author: | keys1 [ Fri Jul 24, 2009 12:24 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Opinions on bracing |
You don't have to buy an expensive Ibex plan, if you have a Lowe's where you live, or any good hardware store should carry 3" metal plans that work just as well. I have two and use them all the time, I did buy a better blade so it would stay sharp longer. My first guitar was a dreadnaught, I didn't know anything at all about building, bracing is the most difficult. I planned down the braces of the dread so much and the guitar became very loud and clear. I tapped the whole time I was planning, that helps. No, the top is not too thin, different tops of different woods are different thicknesses. You can also take the back and sides to .085 or less. The thinner the better with in reason. The thinner the top the better the sound in some cases, I speak from experience. I would strongly suggest researching every guitar builder on the net you can. Go to their site and read how they build. |
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